Making Wine Fun Again 💥 with Sensory Workshops, featuring Amandine Fournier at Vinesthesia

So far,

I

haven't got

any

resistance,

and

I've been making a point of having wine professionals coming to my tasting as well,

which

was

a

big, big challenge for me, because I

was

like, oh, I've been mocked in the past, and you know, like, a lot of people are just rigid, and they're happy with the format that has been given with the educational system, but not everyone works that way.

And

so I was definitely scared to be criticized and be

mocked,

showcasing my tasting. But actually, I have had some beautiful testimonies where I've had a colleague of mine who's been working in a wine industry for more than 30 years, and I invited him to my tasting,

and

he said to me, he's like, thank you, like, you made me fall in love with one again.

And

I

was just like, you know, I kind of lost my way into the industry, just keep on doing doing the same old,

same

old, and without finding any kind of novelty or refreshing reminder

that

wine means something else.

Bonjour,

and welcome to We Taste Wine Differently,

the

podcast designed to empower you wine professionals and help you truly connect with today's wine consumers through the power of sensory experiences.

Each

week, we will explore practical, science-backed methods and actionable insights rooted in sensory and consumer science to transform how you taste,

talk

about, and present wine, and ultimately enhancing the tasting room experience and building long-term relationships with your consumers.

Are

you ready to taste wine differently and adapt to today's changing dynamics? Let's dive in.

Welcome

to today's episode of We Taste Wine Differently. I'm your host, Isabelle Leschavres, wine-centric scientist, educator, and tasting coach.

I'm

delighted to welcome Amandine Fournier to the show. Amandine

Fournier is

the founder of Vinestasia, and I'm really excited to explore her approach to tasting wine differently.

But

first,

let

me say a few words about Amandine

Fournier.

Playful, present, and unapologetically French, Amandine Fournier

is

far more than a wine expert. Straight out of Bordeaux, the essence of wine runs through her veins, just as she ran through the vineyards as a child.

Her

humanistic approach reimagines wine as a portal

and

each sip as a sensory journey.

We

met on LinkedIn and quickly discovered a shared interest to make wine more approachable through sensory experiences.

But

we are coming from different horizons. I'm really excited to

learn

more about your approach, Amandine

Fournier.

You share your philosophies through interactive workshops, welcoming guests into a world of Vinestasia, a layering of senses as we reconnect with ourself and the moment, glass in hand.

So

I can't wait to learn more about your world of Vinestasia and welcome to the show,

Amandine Fournier. Thank

you so much. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me.

A

pleasure. I'm really fond about your work. So I want to dig a little bit more. So let's start with the origin of Vinestasia and how you came up with this concept, this approach, despite growing up into a very traditional wine region, Bordeaux.

So

I assume you went through maybe some traditional wine education. And I'm really curious about your origin story for Vinestasia.

Look,

my origin story definitely started,

I

would say, over 20 years ago. So as you say, I come from Bordeaux or the countryside. I come from Saint-Emilion. So very, very important platform in the wine industry. Both of my grandfather used to make wine when I was a kid. So I was right away immersed in this environment.

When

I was a kid, like as soon as I could crawl, I was with my family in the vineyard. So I was really immersed with this community and everyone loved being there. That connection that we had,

the

play that we invite into the vineyard as well,

as

well as the seriousness when we are making wine and the process of

like

waiting and being patient. My first pay job was at 12 years old. During school holiday, I was working at the winery. So I was really immersed with that, but

even

having the best time with my family and friends in the wineries,

that's

not where I fell in love. During my education years,

I

was trying to wonder what I wanted to do in my life and I couldn't find any answer.

So

I went into a thing where I tried different industries just to see what fits the

best

to me

and

one of them was in hospitality.

So

I worked in a restaurant, but I found myself very quickly attracted by everything that is bar.

The

alchemy, playing with all the mixology and everything. And I was like, this is it, this is what I want to do.

And

one day during, it was during an exploration too, and the restaurant where I was working at

hosted

a wine tasting.

So

I was the new addition of the team and the youngest one, which at the time was, I was really wondering what on earth I was doing that because I clearly find zero inspiration in the mix of saliva and wine. But it's that moment where things just went like, aha, to me,

while

I was wondering and picking up the wine from all the spittoon,

the

wine expert was on the other side of the room

and

pick up a black wine glass, shooting out to the audience.

Can

you tell me the color of the wine without saying it? And all the attention

at

this moment, everything went all silent.

And

even me,

I

was like,

what

do you mean?

And

this is where it all started, where I was like,

I

want to know more about it. Like,

clearly there

is something more than what I've heard or what I've experienced. So I want to know more about it. And that was my first like

step

into, okay, I want to know more about wine. I'm going to dive into this question. Let's go.

All

right. So

that

was really the pivotal moment,

you

know, these black glasses. And

as

a sensory scientist, we use black glasses all the time. And

when

you present to

wine

experts, usually they are very uncomfortable because they learn to see the wine first. You know, that's the basic of wine

quality

judging is appearance first.

So

I'm curious how just these black glasses, you know, the key question, can

you

guess the color of the wine just by smelling and tasting, I assume.

So

what was the next step? You know, this pivotal moment is just like incredible.

Well,

I was very lucky actually. The one expert on that day was actually a professor.

So

I went to have a chat with him. And he's like, look, I actually like teach at a school in Bordeaux. So

I'm

going to give you my card, let's catch up for a coffee and see, and take you through the process. So I had to go and do an interview with the school. And I went through a selection

because

there were limited seats

available

at the school.

And

I think I got it, like, I think from my enthusiasm,

I

got the place

and

the rest. Yeah, I've been studying. I went through a course of three years studying, going all over France as well, traveling as well as I was studying and working at the same time.

So

I got a better understanding of the vineyard all over France

and

a better understanding of what I want to do and why wine was so important to me at the time now.

Yeah. Well, you know, such a dream career path for so many wine scholars to

travel

across France.

So you

learn all about wine, you discover the making of it, the importance of the vineyards.

But

then

how

did you make the leap to the senses, you know, and the importance of the senses in our appreciation of wine?

I

think that was definitely right away from what I was studying.

So

for sure,

I

had this moment where I had to use my mind, but there were something in me when I was tasting the wine, like the wine was taking me to some places.

I

was remembering like old memories that were connected to some smell or sometimes like

I

had

a

vision, like I just closed my eyes, connect with the wine and be focused on the present moment. Sometimes I had a flash from a movie coming up or maybe a painting or just a scenery that I was imagining in my head. And from this, I was like, oh, like I've actually quite liked

the

way wine come to me and all those images come up.

And

so at some point

I

was like, oh, yeah, just do it. Just share your vision, just share what you see,

which

I've done.

And

I've done it in front of my peers and some other students in the classroom. And the way I was describing the wine,

they

all laugh at me.

And

on this, I was like, all right. So I guess this is not the time and the place to speak openly about what I feel. It's a more

rigid

way that you need to focus, like what the textbook are saying and you need to describe in a way that the textbook are saying. And there is

maybe

no more room for anything else. And on this, I got like

a

bit shut down. I was like, oh, I'm going to do that for myself for now. And just focus on that plastic,

like

textbook frame,

which

I've done for a certain time, like for most of my career, actually, until I will say two, three years ago, I had a kind of sparkles in my stomach where I felt like I was too comfortable into my environment. So I quit my job

and

I went, well, I quit my job

and

I jumped into another role of sommelier. So it's not like I went into something completely different, but the environment itself, I just changed the people I was working with.

And

step by step, I was like, okay, I'm not going to go full-time. I'm going to go part-time. So I have more time to understand and find out what it means and what I can contribute within this industry. Because at the end of the day, just replicating the same thing all over again, clearly is not me. And I'm leading step by step. So I need to connect really to that essence of wine, the thing that sparkles the joy and the magic in me and connect with that and share it to the world.

Wow. That's

a great mission and a wonderful statement, you know, to sparkle the joy in yourself and share with others. I love it. So we continue your journey. So now you have a mission on this planet to make wine more approachable, to share a different way of tasting wine. So what are you doing that? Is it how vinesthesia

came

to birth?

Exactly. Vinesthesia came to birth. So when you look at the word vinesthesia, so vin, vin, wine in English.

And

I took the other part of synesthesia, synesthesia. So when you experience one sense

through

another,

so

I combine all together. So when we do wine tasting, we actually get the chance to,

for

example, taste, but through the test, we don't just

test

what we have in our mouth.

Now

from the back of the palette,

we

have the retro olfaction. And so it's connecting to the sense of smell as well. When we test and talk about texture and tannin, we're talking about

silky

feeling or a more fine grain. And that will be also connecting with our sense of touch and what we feel from the fingertips.

So

I actually just like connected the dots together

and

things that I was like, oh, like

we

have this intellectual approach about wine and some people would be romantic as well. I'm very romantic when I speak about wine, but how about that human approach, something that people can resonate with.

And

this is where I just got the chance to like

step

in. And I was like, I'm going to show the world of wine from something that they don't need to train for,

I

mean, you can obviously train for, but something they born with, they born with those assets. They have the past, they have their own history. And somehow without realizing it, they've been just like

registering

some data with everyday life that they can go back to

and

connect with the world and describe the wine with it.

Yeah. It's

very profound what you said, because I realized that in my work as well, people don't realize the assets that they have, the capability, the capacity. I always struggle with those two words, but their skills, they have the skills. They just don't use them. So it's wonderful to see people discovering that,

yes,

when I taste, I smell. And that's the big aha moment usually for people when they discover retronase olfaction. But I'm going maybe too much into the

practices

and the technicalities. So maybe you have this vision, this mission. You have hosted several workshops since to share your approach. So when

people

register, you know, what do you promise to them? How do they come interested in the approach? Because who do they come like, we're going to do a wine tasting and meet a winemaker? What is really the dynamic and how do they connect with you?

So

first, I think when they come in, they, I think they definitely have this expectation of coming to a wine tasting.

And

so that is one thing that I

cut

right away.

When

people sit down and we start the session, I ask them who have ever been

to

a wine tasting before. Most of the people have been lifting their hands up. So I'm like, great,

this

is amazing. Now

I

want you

to be

experiencing and forget about everything, because what I'm going to take you through today is nothing like you've been experiencing before. On this, I'm going to cut out every jargon

and

the pretense,

and

I'm going to make it more fun.

And

so everyone can relax because guess what? There is no wrong answer whatsoever. Everything is very much like true to you.

Of

course, if you have a Shiraz in front of you and you're thinking it's a Vionier,

I'm

going to like readjust certain facts. But for everything that you feel like it for you, you are smelling a strawberry.

Who

I am to tell you, no, it's not right.

I

can

guide you through, I can share my point of view,

but

I'm not based on your understanding of what

it

smells like and tastes like.

Yeah.

Yeah. So except if I have a strawberry in front of me and I can share that to you and you're the one be like, no,

it

definitely smells like a strawberry.

Oh,

no, actually I thought strawberry was smelling different or testing different.

And

then you readjust that thing. Otherwise, like it's all

based

on a personal understanding.

Yeah.

You know,

I'm very

fascinated

by the fact that

you

discovered basically

how

to conduct a sunscreen tasting by yourself and through your own experience and the way that you lead the workshops. You just made a comment about bringing what we called physical standard,

you

know, read strawberry to align the description to make sure that the person, when they said strawberry, that's what they meant. So I'm really fascinated and impressed by

your

path to realize that. So just note, you don't need to have a PhD in sensory science to conduct sensory tasting. That's really what it is. So in terms of the activities, you started to talk about the beginning of the workshop. So how do you conduct the tasting? You said, well, you know, if they said Shiraz and it's a Vioni, you know, is it a blind tasting? Do they have to guess the bridal wines or how do you

lead

them through the discovery of the wines?

So

the discovery of the wine doesn't go necessarily through this technicality.

I'm not

here to necessarily speak about the winemaking process because

there

are things that people cannot relate to.

It's

purely a sensory approach and how to show I'm showing people

how

much they trust the senses,

how

much the senses tell the truth

and

how to see things from different perspectives.

So,

for example, my very first thing, so I just tell them my origin journey

and my

origin story,

and

I come up with a black glass

and

I ask them, can you please tell me the color of the wine without saying it?

So

straight away, obviously, it's one thing like we take our senses for granted,

and

so when we have this, where we have a black wine glass, we're like, okay, so where is the answer? How can I find the answer? And I see people smelling and I see the eyes wandering around

and

I saw them right away. I'm like, what I'm inviting you to do right now is to close your eyes as well. Clearly, you can't see the answer,

so you need to

find another way to get to the answer. If you keep your eyes open, you are looking for the answer around you, but this is just visual noise,

and

it disconnects you to what you have in front of you, which is the answer.

So on

this, I give them the tools or the directives

to

get a better understanding of

what

the color could be and how they can guess

that

color. So from this,

we

go from the sense of smell,

and

then we go through the sense of taste, and I invite them to close their eyes and be like,

so

first of all,

is

there something in particular that come up to you? Maybe it's a color.

Maybe

you see green,

so

green will be closely connecting to a white wine

for

the color perspective. Maybe you see strawberries,

so

you're like, oh, strawberries, red, so like just very basic and simple thing. Because it's red, maybe the wine could be red. Maybe you have that like

smoky

flavor or spices that come up, so maybe it's more related to a strength of a red wine.

When

you taste the wine, maybe you have something

that

feels richer with a bit of tannin, so you're like, oh, yeah, that's the thing here, red wine.

So

I took them through these things, and what I really love at the moment is showcasing Pinot Gris,

because

Pinot Gris is a great variety that

everyone

is like, yeah, Pinot Gris, Pinot Gris, Joe, you know, just

like cheap

and cheerful type of wine.

But

when you really connect to the history of it and all the variation that is

attached

to the Pinot Gris, like for example, I showcase a Ramato style,

which

is a Pinot Gris style made in the northeast of Italy, where the winemakers

differentiate

themselves to the French, being using the skin

of

a Pinot Gris, which is

such

a beautiful variation of color, going from the yellow to the orange, to the green, to the pink, to the purple. And having this living in contact with the juice, the attracting, extracting colors,

and

more aromatic and texture.

And

from that, like I have tasted some Pinot Gris that tastes like Pinot Noir. And

when

I show at some point, like I go and I do a reveal. So I pour from the black glass and I pour into a clear glass.

And

I ask them again, now you can see the color of the wine.

Can

you tell me, with assurance, the color of the wine?

And

so they go through and I'm like, okay, now I can see. So clearly it's a rosé.

But

no, we are on a Pinot Gris. It's a white wine. It's

not because

you look like a rosé. And it's just showcasing to people like things are not necessarily what they seem to be.

Yeah,

I think it's a beautiful approach also for the people who want to learn about the winemaking differences, etc. It's a wonderful way to learn through the discovery rather than learning everything in a textbook and then trying to recognize the wine in a blind tasting. So, yeah, kudos to them. That's excellent.

Yeah, I definitely give them some indication and some better understanding in wine without teaching them anything like per se. I'm not here with

my

textbook and be like, so this is what you need to remember, what you need to learn. No, I'm just showcasing what are the possibilities that are on the market.

And

seeing, like, rather than going towards something that is very classic,

maybe

I need to step out

of

my comfort zone and try something a bit different. And maybe it would be a Pinot Gris with King Contact. And actually, that would be phenomenal. So, yeah, showcasing other possibilities rather than what we know.

Yeah,

yeah. So,

you

said when people

come

to the workshop, many of them think it's a traditional wine tasting. Two questions, you know,

did

they share with you any aha moments, any discovery moments that really was really worth it to come to the workshop? Or did you have also any resistance from some participants? And, yeah, just curious.

So

far, I haven't got any resistance. And I've been making a point of having wine professionals coming to my tasting as well,

which

was

a

big, big challenge for me because I was like, oh, I've been mocked in the past. And, you know, like a lot of people are just rigid and they're happy with the format that has been given with the educational system. But not everyone works that way.

And

so, I was definitely scared to be criticized and be

mocked,

showcasing my tasting. But actually, I have had some beautiful testimonies where I've had a colleague of mine who's been working in a wine industry for more than 30 years. And I invited him to my tasting.

And

he said to me, he's like, thank you. Like, you made me fall in love with one again.

And I

was just like, you know, I kind of lost my way into the industry, just keep on doing, doing the same old, same old, and without finding any kind of novelty or refreshing reminder

that

wine means something else.

I've

had on my last two tastings, I have had a younger woman came in to the tasting and that was a very first wine tasting.

Okay.

So,

for me,

I

was like, all right, so, obviously, it's very hard because she can't

compare. She

never had any experience of wine tasting before. When she came up, she's like, you showed me

something

that I was hoping to get, like, really a

proper

connection, something where I don't have

to

be educated

in order to

know that I can actually appreciate one. And I can have a better understanding or better immersion for it without coming with a back of knowledge.

And

because my approach is fun, it's based on storytelling, so a lot of people share their own story and the way they feel as well. And it's very, a lot of, like, immersion and a moment where we get to connect all together, which is what the essence of wine means to me. Like, it's really getting the chance to travel through time and space, connecting with old memories, connecting with

new

memories that we just, like, creating on the moment with people that are around us and connecting with people.

Yeah,

and wine is the perfect vehicle for that, for social interactions, you know, it's been for millennia around us and connecting people and fostering connections. But what you described, remind me of an article I just

read,

it was a BBC feature about the Paris Opera, Opera Garnier. And, you

know,

opera is also something,

a

part of the culture that seems intimidating for people, very, like, you need to be educated. And the director was interviewed and he said, well, this is not what we want. We want people to come and feel and have emotions. And really, it's not about looking at the booklet before and understanding the story. If you feel the story, you don't need to know the story in advance. And I said, well, that reminds me a lot about wine. You really need to feel that connection. And

we

had a conversation to prepare this podcast, Amma. And

I

think you said something to the essence that you encourage participants to really

see

what is the message of the winemaker in the bottle. And

I'm

just wondering, how do you do that?

How

do people

find

the message or how do they interpret this request?

Well,

first of all, you can't, I don't think you'll be able to connect with the message in the bottle, in every single bottle.

Yeah.

It

just depends emotionally if you connect with the wine and if the wine makes you feel a certain way. That's where you get to connect with the message in a bottle.

Obviously,

when I look at a winemaker, for me, a winemaker is a storyteller, he's an author. Rather than using a pen and a paper to write a story, he will use the great variety and what the year has been providing. He has a vision. He knows what the plot is going to produce with this understanding. And therefore, with the year that has been happening, trying to harvest the best quality fruit and write a story through that. So

he

has his own message to give to the people, but

at the

same time, like you have your own message. So when you connect with a certain smell or a certain texture,

because

this

will

probably make you think

of

something else, like a memory that has been lost in

time,

this memory holds emotion,

which

holds maybe a message for you to reconnect

with

this time and make you feel something. And, like, you know, you're bringing a memory back to life

with

a glass of wine.

I

mean, to me, it's a magic potion.

And

this message will mean for you

at

that time.

Yeah.

Yeah. And

this is what is quite important for me.

And

I think the approach or the journey you take people through is really about discovering the importance of being mindful when you smell and taste a glass of wine. Because otherwise, you miss all those messages.

That's

very great. You know, if somebody is talking

about

the great story of the winemaking and the wineries, and then you listen to the people, you don't pay attention to the wine. But really to feel that connection and to be

in

tune with your senses and experience,

you

need silence. You need to close your eyes. And yeah, you're right on.

It's

wonderful. Yeah. Connecting with yourself. Look, it's the same thing when you pick a book or when you listen to music or you watch a movie. You will have something at some point, a sentence.

Like, you

feel something where it's like a call of action.

Yeah.

Yeah. And what gives you exactly the same thing. And

this is

your message at the time. Like, it's special for you. And that message was in the bottle.

It

doesn't mean that you will, again, like, find that in every single bottle. I don't.

It's

not often

that

I get, like, especially working in a restaurant,

I

open bottles, like,

dozens

and dozens and dozens of bottles of wine every day. So for me, when I get, like, it's always the same thing. I open the bottle. I pour a taste in my glass. I close my eyes for a second.

And

I see clearly, like, when a smile come up to my face, I'm like,

yeah, yeah,

excellent. Yeah. And we talk a lot about emotions and, you know, emotions drive people's behavior. And definitely the aromatics of the wines are connected to the

deep

center of emotion. So the more people can remember, you know, generate memories of the fact that they create these new memories with you will certainly, you know, they will remember that experience for a long time. And if you are representing a winery, definitely

they

will remember the wines and the brand. So this emotional connection is so important.

So

you went through hospitality training and

your

peers were not very open to tasting wine differently. So now with

this

experience that you have under your belt, how do you see this traditional

training for

wine hospitality professional and your approach, which is more

geared

towards consumers, being more focused on the central experience of the consumers?

Is

there a place for these two to approach to, at some point, you know, not merge, but find some commonalities? And yeah, I'm just curious about your point of view on that.

So

for me, one can't be dissociated to the other. It's very important. Wine, like you have the educational system, which is the mind,

and

then you have the sensory approach, which is the body.

I

don't want to cut one from the other. And I think both of them should be merging.

Both

of them have one common interest, wine.

But

the importance is that you can't just focus on the mind and ask the mind to understand everything that the body feels

without

like, you can't like, both of them has to work together. For me, when I went through the scholarship, I got to learn about history,

I

got to learn about geography, I got to learn about everything that is cultural with music, with food, where it's been made and why it's been made that way. Like there were so much things that I got the chance to learn that with my textbook,

I

also got the chance to travel

sitting

on my chair, comfortably home. So it's quite important and it will give you so much information that provides understanding that like the body will give you a signal. But if you don't have that understanding through the mind and through all the technicality, maybe you may miss some point.

It's

not necessary to have all the educational system, you can enjoy wine as it is, you don't need to have a degree for it. If you want to dive further into this element, go ahead.

It

could be

very

confusing

and

it can be very mind opening, it has both, but I don't think I want to dissociate one from another. I think

the

scholar system

needs

to have a more holistic, a more human approach,

rather

than being intellectual

all

the time. Because we're missing the point, like,

I

have that thing, sometimes I really don't like speaking with sommeliers, because they just speak about the wine they've been selling, the wine they've been drinking, all their life is wine. Where I'm like, hang on a second, there is so much more and like you can connect wine with opera and music, like the way the emotion comes through you when you listen to some music, wine will provide you the same thing. But it's not in the textbook that you will learn that, it's by experiencing it yourself, on the moment.

Yeah,

I always say to my clients, I mean, I think the wine education starts on the wrong side of the equation. We should start by helping people discover wine through their senses. And then if, as you just said, if they want to get more education to understand, you know, this strawberry note, where does it come from? Is it the varietal or is it the winemaking? Then they can go further and then travel through the textbook or if they are lucky to travel to the wine regions. I totally agree. Yeah.

So

you have conducted these workshops for several years right now?

Right now, it's been about a year and a half.

A year and a half. Do you envision like a next step? How do you see Vinastasia growing and developing and maybe exploring other dimensions?

Yeah,

absolutely. So first of all, I want to take wine outside of the things that we know. I want to take it outside of the winery, outside of the restaurant, outside of the wine bar or cellar.

I

want to take it to some places like art gallery. Wine for me is art.

And

so sometimes when we wander around our gallery,

some

piece of art will just connect and align with the wine.

And

so I want to take that to like a fashion show

because

when you get to experience the different textile, you will understand that you can match the feeling from the fingertip

to

the wine and the texture and the mouth feeling of a wine. So all of those things are like, you can push boundaries. So for me, I definitely want to take it places. I want to go back to Bordeaux and showcase that to Bordeaux to that very

like classic,

strict, rigid type of places where they're like. I went back last year to Saint-Emilion and they were like, oh, we're bringing novelty to the wine tasting.

And

I'm like, oh, that's very curious. Please. I want to see. I want to experience that. And actually, they were doing exactly the same thing as they were doing 20 years ago when I started in my career. So I'm like, there is no novelty. You're just using a word to just make it feel novel. But no, along this,

I

think like, yeah, we need to push, like we need to connect with creativity. Creativity is quite important. I'd like to bring my tasting to some retreats, mindfulness retreat as well and wellness retreats to showcase that. Sure, I understand wine is alcohol,

but

when you appreciate it and you're mindful of the way you're consuming,

you

can create like so much beautiful moments or you can be inspired by the drink itself.

And you don't

have to go to the point that you're tipsy or wasted.

Like

you can just appreciate a simple glass or two and don't go down the road of like just having this habit of getting another one, getting another one, getting another one. And then you're like, oh, I went too far. I want to like

bring

the anesthesia to people house without me being there. So maybe I was like envisioning doing some collaboration with some wineries and bring like some like board games and things like this, where people get to have fun with their friends and they just need to buy another bottle of wine to experience again the same thing and just play again. And they have all the tools necessary for it and, and

there are

things that they're accessible straight away from your kitchen.

Like

play with some herbs or like dehydrated fruit or things like this. And this is everyday like

ingredients

that we have accessible. It's not like I'm creating something that is completely out there. I just like get inspired by what I have in front of me.

Yeah,

yeah. Again, great sensory practice using what you have in your kitchen to train your nose. And like my mentor, Anne Noble says, listen to your nose every day. The best way to develop your ability to re-enjoy wine because you can pinpoint, you know, what you perceive and it makes you feel a different sensation. So that's great. So

I

don't know how much time we've been talking, but it's been a great

conversation. Thank you.

No, thank you. It's been awesome. I'm so, so happy. I really enjoy connecting and speaking more about wine.

Yeah.

Well, I just want to mention, you know, an experiment I went through. I was at Ecole d'Hôtellerie de Lausanne last month and one of the professors, Professor Lostis,

took

us through an interesting experiment that makes me think about it because you talk about art gallery. So he showed us some paintings, you know, projected on the wall and asking us about the question about the painting, if we had seen it before, if we liked it, to describe it.

And

then he presented a glass of wine in a black glass, so we didn't see the color and we just had to taste the wine and say how much we liked it and describe it if we wanted.

Unknown

to us and being a sensory scientist I've been called, they were like replicated wines that were presented with different paintings. And it was amazing once they unveiled everything to realize that the same wine presented with different paintings,

you

know, one that was very colorful and cheerful and one was kind of dark and sad. And

that makes

you

enjoy

the wine differently. So I definitely, I love this concept and just, you know, for people to realize how the context affects our perceptions. And

if

you really want to learn about wine, focusing on the wine,

just

being mindful and closing your eyes is important and then you can play. That's really, just wanted to share that because it might give you more ideas on how to use art in your workshops. No,

it

is definitely so, like, it's perfect. That's one thing is very important to me, like, also what that professor did is creating novelty,

looking

at wine from a different perspective, you're looking first at the piece of art, what it makes you feel, what kind of emotion does it make you connect with, and then you, like you setting a tone right away on your emotional level.

And

so the wine, I mean, you go on the body constitution, we are 80% based on water.

Wine,

80% base of water as well. So when we look at these elements and our energy and the vibration that goes and connect between the two, like we are going to make the wine, if we have the worst day ever and we're angry and we're frustrated, the wine will be bitter and sour. If we have the best news, we are like in love and joyful, the wine will showcase as it is exactly, like it will offer you everything on the silver tray.

Yeah. Yeah. And this

is just connecting with your emotional, like feelings, like it's something that is, yeah, I'm like, I want to know more about it. I want to go and dive into this rabbit hole by the time, because I'm like, if you get to set the emotions of people on high,

you

can just go higher

from

there.

Yes. And

especially, you know, these times, the mood in the wine industry globally is not very high. Consumption is down. We are blaming the new generations for not enjoying as much wine as their parents or grandparents. You know, that might not be the issue, but

your

approach to wine tasting might definitely appeal to people wanting to do things differently. And, you

know,

we're talking about mindfulness and art gallery, and it's all about creating those experiences. So,

maybe,

you know, one of my last questions would be for the people who are listening to us right now, who want to try something a bit different in their tasting rooms or at their tasting events. What would be one

actual

step, practical step that you could suggest so that they could

help

their guests get closer to maybe a Venesthesia experiment or, yeah, experience?

I would say,

first

of all, be you, be human, like connect to this sense. Instead of offering a charcuterie board and a cheese board, which clearly doesn't reflect any senses into the wine. Maybe you should have different fruits and different herbs where those things are right now how the wine tastes like. Like they construct the wine, make them feel wine and make them like go through like this kind of journey where they be like, OK, now I get to understand. I get to see it and I connect the dots together, get to re-empower people. Don't be like, here is the wine. So what do you think? What do you test? Do you like it? Like even for me being in wine industry for more than 20 years, sometimes I'm like,

well,

yeah, I can tell you what I feel about it. But like me compared to the rest of like, does it mean something?

And

also

they

are like trying to connect that with that novelty. I had a customer who recently said to me, oh, I went on to Adelaide trip and I went to do some wine tasting. And I went to this winery and they made us do a wine tasting in the bus, in the middle of the vineyard. And I was so cool. I had the best experience and I bought some wine and I went back home and I taste the wine. And

well,

it was not that good actually.

And

I'm like, why? Because first of all, the winery created novelty, something you didn't expect. You never been having a wine tasting through this kind of format. But it is also in people's hands to create that novelty,

to

understand what wine is

and

what it makes you feel and how you can replicate that for yourself. Rather than just sitting in front of a TV with a glass of wine, expecting to feel joy and the best thing in the world. Like you have to also recreate this element for you to really like connect with the wine and be like, oh, wow, that's the best thing that I ever tasted ever. Why? Why is it the best thing you taste ever? Why make you feel that way? It comes from

you

at the first place as well.

It's

really about listening to customers. And as a researcher, I always say, listen to the customers. Don't talk that much, you know, listen, because you can learn so much about the language that people are utilizing. Their memories are personal. Of course, you might not be able to use that for communication, but the way they describe wine, those words, you know,

it

will give you an idea on how to create new experiences and how to connect with them. And

as

consumers,

we

connect with messages that resonate with us. You know, if they

clearly

have, they use the words that resonate with us, we will certainly pay more attention to that website or that newsletter that we receive in our inbox.

Yeah. So

you mentioned Adelaide Hills. So you're not in the side of this planet with me. So

I

would love to come to one of your workshops, but

it

might not be for some time. But where can people find you, Ama, if they want to connect with you?

Well,

they can find me on my social media with ama.binesthesia or directly through my website binesthesia.com.au and reach out.

So

come to me, drop me a message, connect and like come out with a question. I'm more than happy to connect with people, to chat about wine and sit down with a glass of wine. Why not?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is what is missing right now. But thank you so much. Thank

you so much to

have shared your journey and your passion for wine and for people and for human connections. I really enjoy our conversations and it was really a pleasure to have you on the show, Ama.

Thank

you very much. It was indeed a great pleasure and I'm really looking forward to the next time.

Yeah. Cheers.

Cheers.

And

that's it for today's episode of We Taste Wine Differently.

If

you enjoyed it, please subscribe or follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

If

you want to learn more about how I can help you and your team implement a sensory driven tasting experience,

join

the priority list of the new program I'm currently working on.

It's

called Wine Tasting Reimagine. Design sensory focused wine experiences that convert.

The

link is

link

.innovinum.com slash priority list.

You

will also find the link to join in the show notes. A bientôt.