Emmanuel Macron interview (English): Getting “tough” on Brexit

J'ai rencontré beaucoup de gens aujourd'hui sur le livre-signing dans le supermarché. Et bien sûr, beaucoup de gens l'aiment toi et l'aiment toi et l'aiment toi et l'aiment toi et l'aiment toi. Mais d'autres gens nous ont dit qu'on aime le gars que nous ne savons pas ce qu'il s'agit. Nous ne savons pas ce qu'il s'agit quand il s'agit en power. Qu'est-ce que tu s'agit ?

Regarde, premièrement, je veux produire et développer en France. C'est la première perspective. Nous sommes maintenant dans une nouvelle perspective, une nouvelle économie. l'économie de competitiveness, l'innovation, les super talents. Donc nous devons réformer le pays pour réussir dans ce genre de environnement. Donc, ce que je vais faire, c'est réformer notre marché, réformer notre système d'entraînement, réformer notre système d'éducation.

Mais comment tu peux faire toutes ces choses, si tu n'as pas encore une partie, si tu n'as pas encore une partie dans l'Assemblée qui va vous aider à passer ces laws ?

C'est exactement le opposite. Nous avons une partie maintenant avec plus de 180 000 personnes. C'est-à-dire, je veux dire, deux fois le socialiste parti. Et je vais décider, dans les prochaines semaines, et j'ai appris un comité en charge de ça, pour précisément nominer les personnes pour aller à l'élection. Donc, nous aurons 577 candidats pour notre parlement, et nous aurons une situation de construire une majorité à l'élection. Mais ils doivent gagner leurs candidats. Ils doivent gagner leurs candidats. Mais c'est sûr. Je confirme.

Donc, nous aurons beaucoup d'autres personnes, d'un Socialiste Parti, d'un Lib Dems, d'un Lib Dems, d'un Lib Dems, d'un RIDE, d'un Ecologist, qui travaillent sur la même plateforme, parce qu'on a maintenant une plateforme. Il y a une grande débatte dans la France sur le programme, ou pas le programme, ou le projet. Je ne crois pas à ce programme. Pourquoi ? Parce que vous décrivez 200 mesures que vous permettez si vous êtes élevé. Personne ne vous délivre. Pourquoi ? Parce que vous ne savez pas la situation. Vous ne savez pas les événements. Vous ne savez pas les nouvelles. Vous ne savez pas les nouvelles. Mais qu'est-ce que les principes ?

Donc, ce que j'ai créé, c'est une vision clare et consistant. Nous sommes pro-innovation, pro-education, pour réduire l'égalité des chances. Nous sommes pro-Europe et pro-French secularisme. C'est un package. Qu'est-ce que l'immigration ? C'est un package. Qu'est-ce que l'immigration ? L'immigration, en France, le programme que nous défendons est que, first, nous voulons mieux le contrôle. Nous sommes pour l'intégration des gens, parce que la question clé n'est pas de nouvelles migrations. C'est l'intégration. Et pour les réfugiés, c'est une question totalement différente. nous voulons respecter nos valeurs, ce qui est pour les réfugiés quand ils arrivent.

Donc, c'est une approche pragmatique, ce qu'on appelle un approche progressiste. Parce que nos gens sont progressistes qui viennent de l'autre, de l'autre et de l'autre, et de la société civile. Et nous construisons cette vision, nous construisons un projet. Mon livre est un projet. Et après, je descris, en mesure par mesure, afin d'être consistent avec ce projet, les détails de ce programme. Donc, nous le avons sur le marché du travail, sur l'agriculture, sur l'environnement. Donc, nous délivrons cela et je vais tout retrouver dans quelques pages à la fin du mois.

Ok, votre livre s'appelle «Revolution ».

Oui.

Vous n'êtes pas comme un révolutionnaire. Vous avez travaillé pour Rothschild's Bank avant, vous étiez un financier, vous étiez un ministre économique, vous étiez un membre du Socialiste, mais vous n'êtes pas un révolutionnaire, n'est-ce pas ?

Non, mais les normales personnes maintenant deviennent une révolution, une révolution démocratique. Je ne veux pas être révolutionnaire comme un français sans-culottes. Vous n'êtes pas Robespierre ? Ou quelqu'un qui me dit, oui. Et je dois dire, M. Mélenchon aussi, il était un Premier ministre quand j'étais jeune. Je suis désolé de dire ça, mais personne n'est en charge de la révolution dans ce pays. C'est pure bullshit. Mais ce qui est important, pourquoi je l'appelle « révolution » ? Parce que nous vivons une révolution, de facto. Mais c'est à l'autre,

plus à l'autre, ou à l'autre, ou à l'autre.

Nous vivons une révolution. Nous vivons une révolution. Tout nous, votre pays,

vous vivons une révolution.

Mais ça se fait en la même direction, à ce que vous êtes concerné ? À ce que je suis concerné. Mais mon point est que nous sommes dans une période de changement radicale. Quand vous regardez le terrorisme, la migration, le dégétisme, le environnement, c'est tout de la révolution. C'est tout de suite de changement radicale. Vous avez besoin de faire de la révolution. Il faut d'abord épreuve à ces nouvelles situations et dire aux gens que je ne veux pas proposer ou des petites réformes ou des petites réformes. Vous voulez la grande chose. Nous avons besoin de la grande chose pour la première chose pour le pays pour réussir au niveau de cette environnement qui est radicale.

Et second, vous avez besoin d'aider une chance qui est extrêmement important.

Mais le moment révolutionnaire en ce moment, en l'année dernière, et peut-être aussi dans ce temps, la révolutionnaire et l'insurgente Insurgent momentum has been on the side of the right. Trump in America, Le Pen, they're doing very well in the polls here. She's still ahead of you in the polls in this country. You're right. The AFD in Germany, Brexit. You're right. So how will you buck that trend?

How will you go against that? By fighting, by convincing people, by speaking to their intelligence and by trying to build stronger arguments in order to present and highlight our project. I mean, if you decide to mitigate your project or yourself to become an extremist or a sort of an extremist because you do believe that your people now decide for these extremes, you already did. That's the new Munich conference. When some people try to go in the Front National direction, in the French political spectrum, that's a big mistake. That's a big mistake.

Because they always prefer the original to the copy. If you were president of France, would you try and woo Britain back into the EU? Would you try and persuade them to forget about Brexit? I will do, but I'm not sure that I'm the best place to do so.

Right. No, I can try, but I do respect people's vote. Right. And I'm not sure that a French guy explaining British people what they have to do is the most efficient thing. I do believe that if you organize general election in the coming month, you can have a big debate in order, perhaps, to revert the decision. I do prefer such a solution. But I'm humble and lucid. I don't think one sec that a French guy coming to London saying, people have a good idea for you. I know what is good for you and I will teach you about that. I mean, it will be inefficient not to say worse than that. When I look at Barack Obama, I mean, he delivered a very powerful message. It didn't work. It didn't work at all.

And probably, I mean, it will get a negative effect. What I want to do is first, if your government decides to organize a Brexit, I will be pretty tough on it because I think it cannot be... It will be tough on it. Yes, because we have to preserve the rest of the European Union and not to convey the message that you can decide to live without any consequence. So Britain should be punished for its decision? No, it's not to be punished, but to be consistent with such a decision. You don't get the passport and you don't get access to the single market when you decide to leave. So it cannot be...

What about the rights of British citizens living in France? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of British citizens in this country. You would guarantee those rights? For sure. They would very well come. Even if the British government does not guarantee the rights of French citizens in the UK.

The day after, you have bilateral conventions to organize such a moment. So it depends on the bilateral conventions the day they decide to leave the single market. But if they do decide to implement the Brexit, in what Mrs. May proposed, for sure we have first to work at the European level and second to be extremely rigorous about the consequences because it's going to be a game where they can maximize, where the British can maximize their interests without taking into consideration the EU's interests.

But second, I do believe that given the context, the fact that now you have increasing doubts about the situation, the fact that those who promoted the Brexit disappeared right after, people can doubt about it. And I do hope that new leaders can come to Great Britain and my role will be much more to help new leaders to promote an actual pro-European view. And what is very important to me, as well as in the French debate, I'm a pro-European, but it's not to abandon the criticism of Europe. I think one of the big mistakes we did during the past years is to consider that the exclusivity of anti-European arguments was on the anti-European side.

You have to criticize Europe to make it better, especially when you do believe in Europe.

It was a big mistake. So this has been a wake-up call, hasn't it? The last year has been a huge wake-up call for Europe. Yeah. Trump, Brexit. Exactly. So just imagine for a minute that Marine Le Pen is the next president. If she is the next president of France, what happens to the future of Europe?

I mean, if she delivers what she proposed, she will kill the European Union. She will kill the European Union? But de facto, because she wants to divert on immigration, on economy, finance…

She wants a referendum on the Euro, but not on the EU.

No, but de facto, if she wants to implement what she proposes on the European Union, she will leave. She will kill the single market because it's not compatible with the single market. So for sure she will decide to leave. That's the inconsistency of the program. But what you have to do, I mean, my fight, what I want to do, what I want to push, is exactly a strong view on Europe, on our reform on labor markets, on education against unequalities. Precisely to show our people, you have a chance, you have a place in this new society. We have to succeed in this new environment, and Europe is part of the solution. And you want to see more Europe?

You want to see Europe become more united?

I want to see Europe becoming more united. But not the United States of Europe? More powerful at 27 tomorrow, or 28 today, especially on digital and environment. And I want for the Eurozone a much more integrated Eurozone functioning, because we need more integration, we need more investment, we need a new budget stimulus at the Eurozone level. So we need to re-articulate responsibility and solidarity. And today the big problem is that Europe has a very negative policy mix from an economic point of view.

But what about Schengen?

Would you keep Schengen going? No, I think we have to improve Schengen. Ah, so you would kill Schengen? No, I don't, improving something is not to killing it. Yeah. But would you suspend it while you're trying to improve? No, no, I don't want to suspend it. I think Schengen is foreign frontiers, okay, and you can intervene whenever you want inside these frontiers in order to protect your people. But it's not national boundaries, which is totally different. So I think Schengen is a good system if you precisely implement an actual and efficient organization to have your own safeguards and policemen at these frontiers.

So what I want to do is to increase our efforts to create several jobs of policemen, depending on Schengen's area, in order to control at these frontiers, and especially Italy and Greece, about arrival of new people. So I want to be very strict on it, but I don't want to kill Schengen, because the day after, we will restore national boundaries, which is totally inefficient vis-à-vis migration and terrorist attacks. Okay, two more questions.

There are a lot of rumors on the internet, you know, we know that cyber hackers have intervened in various elections. Are you worried about interference from outside, especially from Russian hackers?

I do, because I do experience these attacks. Every day, I have dozens of attacks coming from these countries. Dozens.

Are any of them true about your private life? Sorry? Are any of the attacks true?

No, nothing was true, but they attacked my website first. So cyber attack coming from Ukraine and Russia. So it exists. Second, part of those were conveyed with crazy remorse about my life and so on. They claimed that I was homosexual, which is not a shame in itself. But I am married and I love my wife. So honestly, it's not pleasant for my wife and myself. But that's what they want to push. And they interfere. Why do they want to push that rumor?

French society doesn't care about these things that much. Why would they want to do that?

I think because they want to push a message that I'm a liar. I have a little life. That's their motto. That's what they want to push. And they push. And you don't? No, I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for that. It's not typically a French politician life. But I'm probably not a typical French politician. So I don't have a double life. I'm sorry for that.

But if you look at the cover of Paris March and various other journals, the picture that you see more often than not is you and your wife, who is famously 24 years older than you. 24 or 25? 24. 24, okay. So can your message, your very nuanced message, go beyond that image? Because that is the image that a lot of ordinary French people have in their mind. I thought first that you don't choose to get this image.

Why are you at the front page of this magazine? Because they sell with this image. I'm listening. Does that bother you? Does it bother you? For sure. But why? Because they sell with you. I mean, it's not a philanthropic approach or they are not defending my own party. It's just they want to sell their paper. I'm sorry. But that's it. So I don't want to be the victim of such a system. I don't blame it. It also makes you better known, doesn't it? Yes, for sure. But I think you have different channels. You have the way to be known by people on this kind of magazines. You have the way to convey your ideas, your principles, your view, which is the best way. It's definitely a book.

And you have the way to convey your ideas on specific topics, your projects. and that's what you can do with media, with radio, with interviews and so on.

What is your headline, your election slogan in one line, apart from En Marche? France is a chance. France is a chance. It even rhymes.

Thank you very much. Thank you.