How to Lead in a Unique Way - Itzik Amiel and Rabbi David Schwartz

Salut

tout

le

monde, et merci d'avoir reçu pour cette session spéciale live.

Je

suis Itzy Camille et nous sommes ici avec le weekly SWITCH interview series SWITCH IT ON, où nous parlons avec les gens smart et les gens sur comment vous pouvez changer votre pratique et même votre vie. Et vous êtes très invité. Donc, si vous êtes en

train

de

regarder,

nous sommes en train de

nous et

vous êtes très invité à nous pour apprendre beaucoup plus de cette session. Aujourd'hui,

nous

allons parler des lessons en leadership, une perspective unique. Ou en other words,

comment

-t-on lead d'une manière unique dans le monde légal.

Maintenant,

sans doute, c'est un

épisode

powerful, comme je l

'ai

dit avant. Mais avant d'aller, ceux qui sont en

train

de

nous

maintenant, vous pouvez mettre dans le chat, qui vous êtes,

dans

les commentaires, qui vous êtes, où vous

êtes, où

vous êtes, vous voulez savoir, et bien sûr, si vous êtes un membre de l'American Bar Association International Law Section,

c

'est aussi un membre. Nous voulons savoir que vous êtes avec nous, vous êtes écoutés, parce que votre leader est avec nous, je sais que vous savez, et je voudrais que vous devez vous rejoindre nous pour cette très importante session. Donc, vous pouvez mettre votre nom. Don't être embarrassé, par le fait, en tant

que

personne qui enseigne des branding, c'est une grande opportunité pour vous de sortir de la crowd. Donc, vous

pouvez

mettre votre nom, où vous êtes en train de

nous,

vous savez. Vous savez, j

'ai

l'honneur d'avoir cette live session avec un top legal expert et un rabbi. Aujourd'hui, mon

ami

spécialiste et ami David Schwartz.

Mais

avant d'inviter David à nous rejoindre, je vais vous donner des highlights de vous. Vous savez, nous n'aimerais pas parler en fronte de gens, je ne veux pas qu'il

n

'y a pas

d'être

embarrassé ici. Donc, je vais vous raconter tous les highlights de David avant d'en

venir.

David Schwartz, c'est off-council, à Vattel, Lipton, Rosen & Katz,

c

'est un des plus-known firmes des États-Unis. C'est un

pratique

qui se

concentre

sur la compétition de la loi, particulièrement en tant

que

l'applique à M&A.

David

a co-authored several articles sur la compétition de

la

loi topics et régulièrement en conférences et professionnelles events. Vervais Schwartz est active dans l'American Bar Association, la section de

l

'international de

l

'international, et il s

'agit

de l'international

de l'international, et il s'agit de l

'international de l'international

de l'international.

Il s'agit

aussi

de l'international de l'international de

l

'international

de

l'international. Il s'agit de l'international de l

'international de

l'international

de l

'international. David a voté en un des top 40 competition partenaires au niveau de l'international de l'international. En 2014, Super Lawyers Magazine a été un des super lawyers pour antitrust en la New York.

Rabbi

Schwartz a recevoir des bachelors en Mathematics et économiques, subject I love myself, from the John Hopkins University in 1991, where he was a member of Pia Beta Kappa, a JD. Also, he got from the Yale Law School in 1995, and a Master and Enfield degrees in Economics from Yale University in 1995 and in 1996, respectively. So without further ado, I know I can talk hours about David and invite David to join me. So welcome, David, and

thanks

a lot for joining us.

Thank you so much, Itzik. It's wonderful to be here. It's wonderful to see you. I hope that you're well and your family is good, too.

Thank

you very much, David.

And

I can see already many people giving comments.

So

let me just share because I could see that Sylvia, thank you Sylvia, Linda, I hope I pronounced the name right. Thank you very much. ABL member is Nisi. Great, Linda. Awesome. Peter Bang, our friend from China, is here. Awesome. Very nice. That's a beautiful balingly life, David. Everybody from all over the world right now with us. Diego

Ramirez,

also from Ecuador, also an ABA member. Awesome. And we have another Anonymic Embarrassed Person, Criminal Law Committee from all over the world. Share your name. Don't be embarrassed. And Vadivav Parikh

from

NYU. William Black,

also

with us. Thank you, William. Carol,

then

Bassat,

from

Boulder. Herman, Salmanson, from Argentina. I will share all of you because you dare to share your name. I know there are many with us. 120 people with us, but only a

few

of them share their name.

You

see, that's the beauty about it. Mandelena Falaci. I'm Mandelena. Glad to be here. And from MSC, Co-Chair of the UN, International Organization Committee. Wow, David, you have so many cheerleaders. Exactly. Again, awesome Silvia from Italy. Gonzalo with us. Gonzalo Rodriguez Matos, from also NYC, New York, and Cinecons at Hogan-Lerville. And there's another person who probably know me, but doesn't say the name. Aitsi, good to see you again. Great to be in NYC. Great for all of you. Thank you, Marcus again. Wow, Marcus is

wonderful.

Thank you, Marcus, for being here. I know all of you there are busy, but I'm proud of you to come to listen to David. I promise you, many of

you

never heard what you're going to say today. And we have the last one, Hunter Fox. Great, Hunter. Thank you very much from Canada. So there's more people joining. Please keep your comments that we want to be active. We want to

let

David share with us things we don't know about it. That's the whole idea, right, David? So again, thank you, David, for joining us. But for your permission, let me set the stage for our conversation.

Because

I assume any of our viewers, many people, except for being a professional,

you

might be a leader, right? Or a leader-to-be on your organization or your network, whatever. And think about it yourself, each of

you,

one of you. And every day, each of us is focusing on helping business leader solve maybe critical problem as well as really running your own practice or your career.

And

I'm sure that via your practice,

and

I hope, I assume I'm right about all of you, you have been exposed to a diverse range of organization, functional group, and cultures around the world.

and

collectively,

these

experiences and people have contributed to the person and business leader you are today.

I

hope all of you agree about it because that's how we shape our thinking, our behavior. Now, occasionally, peers and up-up comers alike will share with you their perspective on leadership that can help you learn

and

really adapt your style of leadership.

Now,

because I'm always laughing, you know, and all those people going for a weekend on leadership and boom, they got a certificate and they think they're a leader. It takes time. It is all this exposure and that's exactly what we want to do today. Today, these are one of these special opportunities

that

I assume some of you never had before.

I

want to share with you a few of the greatest leadership lessons my special guests have learned through his career. And I want you to pay attention because it's different than everything you ever expected and maybe in love, you don't even heard it before and maybe not even after. and that's exactly the reason for this special session with David, especially except for the fact that he's a nice guy and the chair of the ABA ILS.

So

to help you understand more how to lead in a different way and go after your big why, I'm sure you will see leadership from a total different perspective that really will inspire you today. So David, I'm back to you. So as I shared in my short answer to you, David, that you're not only a lawyer, but also a rabbi. And I'm not naturally telling everybody all this credibility, but for you it's very important because it's very, I would say unique combination.

So

the first question that comes to mind, and I'm sure a lot of our viewers are asking themselves, how did you end up in urbanical school after being part in such a distinguished law firm?

You

know, it's a great question, and I'm not surprised that you're asking because it's one that I get asked all the time. But before I even get into that, I just want to note and emphasize a point that you made, and that is that, you know, we each have to find our own approach to leadership. And one of the great things about being at Wachtell was that I got to see different lawyers practice the same area of the law in different ways and to

pick

and choose from each of those areas. What was it that I really appreciated about it? And what did, what felt most genuine to me? And I think that's a key element in leadership as well. So as you know, your audience goes through this program and all of your series, you know, you don't have to take everything from everybody, but take the pieces that make sense to you and that fit with your personality and who you are. And so that's, that's my, you know, initial comment. And so for me, when I started at Wachtell, you know, I had to sit down with my wife and, and talk about what it meant for us as a family, because Wachtell is an intense place. It's a place where people work,

you

know, literally thousands of hours every year in order to, you know, get the job done, because that priority number one is getting whatever the job is, getting the job done, getting it done effectively and efficiently.

And

so when I started with the Wachtell, I realized that it didn't have to be something that I did forever. And so, you know, we would, on a regular basis, chat about what it is that we, you know, how we were doing, you know, how, you know, were the stresses too much for us, either as a family or as individuals. And, you know, it was a wonderful practice. And I so enjoyed all of my years at Wachtell. And so, but we would continue to have the conversation. And about

10

years ago at this point,

you

know, I began to say, you know, I think we could do something, I could do something different. And my wife asked the all important question, what's the plan?

And I'm

like, well, what do you mean what's the plan? I'm thinking I'm going to, you know, step back and maybe I'll do some, I'll play some golf. I'll do some, you know, take some classes, you know, figure out exactly what it is that I want to do, do some of the exploration that, you know, may not have had a chance to do when I was younger. And, and she's like, no, no, that's, that's not a plan. And so she came, you know, so she got me thinking and realizing, you know what, she's right.

You

know, if you ever want to do something and that includes, you know, moving towards retirement, stepping, you know, making a change in your life, you need to have a plan. You need to have some thought as to what it is that you're trying to achieve, what it is that you want to accomplish in making that change. And so I stepped back and said, what is it that I appreciate about my time at Wachtell and want to bring to a different community and bring to sort of my religious and spiritual life.

and

it occurred to me that, you know, having an opportunity to go to rabbinical school and be a rabbi would actually fulfill an aspect of something that I would really love to do in my life, because it's true what they say. You only live once. And so that's, that's where it came from. It was all about my, what my, my wife saying, what's the plan and realizing that she's right. You need to have a plan.

I

love it.

I

mean, I mean, it's amazing that you tell you, it reminds me a lot of, you know, one question I always ask lawyers that I meet, you know, if that's the place you're going to stay to the rest of your life. And guess what, David? 99% of people said, no, absolutely not. I said, so what are you doing? You know, what are you waiting to do the things that you wanted? What are you waiting for? And the second thing, what your wife said, I think is a great, because I think what you said, it's not a plan. It is a plan, but maybe more selfish plan to play golf all day long emptiness. I mean, you're in a time of legacy and we always think, yeah, I did so much.

You know, the easiest thing is to stay home and, you

know,

whatever. You want to watch TV, watch movies and go play golf. But what do you give back to the society, to the people? And, and I said, people, if you sit at home, I mean, for me, as you, I can sit at home, do nothing. I did that as a lawyer. But if I think to people, the burden should be listening to you is not if you were a great lawyer, but if you don't go out there and stand out and do what you're great at, some other people really need you. Now we're not going to hear you.

You're

not going to change the life. That's the burden. You have to sleep every night with being selfish human being, I would say, you know, and you have to do that because then you expose different thing. And you,

I

mean, you're born with gifts that you want to shine with them, not to hide from people. You know,

that's such a great point that, you know, to be selfish is, is not where you're going to want to be and not something that you're going to feel good about at the end of the day.

Absolutely.

I want to thank everybody who's joining us again. Thanks for all of you, David and Alexia and Dea and Rajesh and Alsan. And we see all of you there. Please, you can give them a comment who you are, where you're dialing from. David wants to know. I would love to know. All of us would love to know the community. And again, if you have any questions to David during the chat, put it also in the comment below, because I would love to address your question to David, except what we prepared to share with you today. So do that as well. Don't be embarrassed. It's no stupid question. And without, again, those of

you

joining right now, we are invited to learn more about lesson in leadership, a unique perspective with David Schwartz, the chair of the ABA international law section. So David, okay, let's dive even more in. And I'm sure many professionals or lawyers who listen to us right now, asking themselves the following question.

Yeah.

Wow, David, that sounds fantastic. Well, an inspiring story, dedication. He is an example of a lawyer who knows what he wants. A lawyer has a plan. Pull over a lawyer that pursue his passion. But, you know, someone thinking, I don't know if I can do that. And I would love to know more from you, David. So David, my question now, based on that, because we want to convince everybody who could do what you did, maybe in their own way, you move to rabbinical school,

sounds

like really a major change. Everybody listening to agree. So what are you still involved in the bar associations? Sorry

for being

so direct.

No, no.

It's a, the point is, is that it's a joke told. Certainly it's true about my family. Maybe it's true about your Zitzig as well. But, you know, there are some people who leave without ever saying goodbye. I'm a person who will, you know, maybe says goodbye without really leaving. And so, you know, I was already involved in the international law section. And as you can see by the wonderful number of people from the section that have participated in this program,

it's,

it's a section that really cares about each other,

you

know, and when you have the opportunity to find not just

your

personal family, family, you know, the family that you have, you know, from birth, but rarely have people that care about you and they want to be there for you and that you want to be there for them.

That,

that's, you know, that, that's the switch that you talk about, right? I mean, when you become, when you have that opportunity to continue to be in relationship with somebody, that just can't end. It just can't end. You want it to continue.

And

so when I graduated, I had planned to, to sort of, you know, begin the process of stepping back from the Bar Association, but we were in the middle of COVID. And I, I had hoped to work on, on issues of loneliness. And to me, loneliness is a, a crucial issue for all of society. And it's true for lawyers as well. You know, many, many lawyers are, feel that sense of loneliness when they're, you know, and, and, and one of the things that the Bar Association can do, the ABA, other Bar Associations as well. And especially the international law section is provide a sense of camar, comradeship and camaraderie that allows people to really feel that they're not alone.

And so it wasn't possible for me to do the work with

lonely

people in person, because everybody was alone in person because we were in the middle of COVID. And so I, I said, you know what, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring and potentially become chair of the international law section. And, you know, folks like Marcos Rios, who's on, you know, shared, you know, encouraged me. And, and it turns out that I got chosen. And here I am three years later, now chair of the international law section. So hard to believe, hard to believe how far we've come. I don't even remember anything before COVID. And frankly, you know, I had to think back to all the time before, before COVID, because it seems like such a, a shock to the system.

And then the last thing I'll note about it is that my, my wife said, there's one limitation on my going to rabbinical school. And that is, she said, no pulpit,

you

know, no, you know, she didn't want me to be a rabbi of a synagogue.

And

so, you know, with that limitation, I realized that actually serving as chair of the international law section is like a pulpit. Just don't tell her that that's, that is really like a pulpit. And so, you know, that's really what it is. There's an opportunity to, to be connected and to help other people

feel

a sense of value, of connection with others. Those are the roles that a rabbi plays. And so getting a chance to realize that was really something that I, you know, I was so blessed to, to find in the international law section.

I

love it. I think what we just shared with us, David, is so profound. I mean, does,

you

know, knows me, I love networking, go to a lot of events. I must admit to all of you there right now that you want to feel this feeling David talked about, go to the next ABA international law section event. And,

you

know, this caring that David talked about. But caring is, is not for a lot of you is the fluffy word. You know what it is. But when you surround yourself, but people are really interested in you, you're a stranger coming around internationally, open up to you, ask questions all about you, not about them. You know you're in the right place. And I'm telling you again, check it out. And David talked about something very unique. You see it now online, but you feel it even more bigger when you go off and meet the people. I suggest all of you just try it. Go there. Don't try it.

It was

right. Go there. Go to the next event and you understand. But David, you are, you are really touching the most important point when a lot of people looking for, and not finding it, is not looking for referral or business. It's looking for belonging, looking for community, looking to be heard, you know, and, and build relationship. And you know, we all know that the purpose of building relationship is building relationship. It's not referral or whatever. All the single side effect of

good

building relationship. You get friends, you get referrals, you get business, you get anything you want. And, and sometimes even save your life, like in my case. So again, if you have questions for David, ask it in the chat, because I'm continue talking about lessons in leadership with David, a unique perspective. And David, I want to help our viewers think differently, thanks to you, on the development of leadership skills.

And

also get exposed to maybe a new sort of leadership you represent right now in front of us, dear David. So my next question to you is, how, and let me verbalize right. How has your rabbinical school education affected your leadership of the ABA International Law Section and maybe vice versa?

Well,

there are a number of ways that it's affected in it. And it's really remarkable

that what

a rabbi does more than anything, what any religious leader does is listen

and

be there.

And,

and know when more expertise is necessary and help people find meaning and purpose. So I want to talk about each of those four, four items. The first is, is that as an ABA leader, as a leader in any setting, you're going to have people come to you with problems.

Now,

sometimes the problem will be clear,

but

sometimes you have to listen a little bit extra to hear what the problem is really. There's a great story that's told about the, this rabbi, the base Halevi, Rabbi Yosef Dov Soloveitchik. He lived in the mid 19th century. And the, a family came to him, a man came to him knocking on the door on, you know, the night of Passover.

And

he asks the rabbi, listen,

I

don't have any wine.

Am

I allowed to use milk

to

drink instead on, on the night of Passover? We have four cups of wine. I don't have the money for wine. Can I, can I, can I use milk?

And

the rabbi, instead of giving him, you know, the three cup packs to, to, for the, the, the wine,

he

gives him 30.

And

his wife's like, I don't understand. He doesn't have wine. So you just give him three. Why'd you give him 30?

And

he said,

yes,

but you had to listen to the question closely. What did he ask? He asked whether I could use milk.

That

implies that he doesn't have any meat. He doesn't have any other food. He probably is, you know, struggling in other ways. So being able to listen to what the real problem is, that's, that's a skill that, that we, we really treasure and we work on during the years of rabbinical school. And so that's, that's number one that I tried to, to bring is, you know, and the, and the piece of that is that often people will, you know, share and have an appointment with you and, and talk to you about all the different things that they're doing. And make sure to stay attentive to the very end because often it's that last moment of the conversation, just as they're, oh, and I'm leaving the door.

And by the way, you should know that this is the problem that I'm having that last moment. That's going to be the whole meeting is, is not going to be as important as how you react in that last moment and be able to be ready to set up another meeting or whatever it needs to be done in order to address that problem.

That's

point.

Point

number one is

by

the

way, David, the last thing you said called the doorknob effect. The doctors use the laughing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And the second thing is showing up. It's really remarkable. What a difference just showing up often. That's really what's necessary. You know, a person can come to you with all of the problems in the world,

but sometimes

they're coming just to unburden themselves. And that unburdening of themselves is the solution that they need. They don't need you to come up with advice.

They'll

ask you if they want advice, but they don't need you to come. They need you to be a friend, be supportive, be able to hear them. And and so being there for somebody in those situations and knowing whether or not to ask, you know, whether or not the person wants advice or needs advice. You know, they may need the advice, but they may not want the advice. And being a friend means knowing the difference between the two. And and being a good rabbi means knowing the difference between the two. And you know what? Being good lawyer means knowing the difference between the two. And so, you know, don't don't jump. And and, you know, showing up

is

just like

taking

a shot in hockey. And Wayne Gretzky famously said you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take. And so, you know, when you have the opportunity to show up for a networking event, show up. You don't know what's going to happen until you show up. You know, if you have the opportunity to be there for a friend who's in need, show up. That's that's the most important thing that you can do. You know, my rabbi is famous for Rabbi Avi Weiss is famous for his ability to show up and be there for people. And that's, you know, such an important lesson that you learn as a rabbi. And it's true

whether

you're a lawyer or whatever your profession. If you are a leader, you want to show up.

And

then, of course, know your limitations. You know, we're not an expert in everything. And that's one of the great things about the international law section is we have a broad array of experts in our section. And, you know, if you want if you're an expert in arbitration, we have somebody that can you need an expert in arbitration. We have somebody that can help you there. You need an expert in antitrust law. We have somebody that can help you there. Whatever it is, just like it's true for in rabbinical school where, you know, if somebody comes to a rabbi and they really need a therapist, because there are some things where, you know, rabbis often get treated as therapists, but they're not.

They're not professional therapists. They're not professional psychologists. You know, sometimes people need a professional. And so that's certainly true in the law as well. And being able to recognize those moments, that's what makes that's what turned good lawyers into great lawyers is being able to recognize, hey, you actually need this expert in this situation. And I'm an expert in that situation. So when you have that situation, you come to me. But I can tell you already you need help in this area. And then, you know what, again, as you've highlighted, it's when you offer that kind of assistance to somebody, they're like, hey,

this

person is like so honest. They're not trying to go outside of their area of expertise. They they're trustworthy. There's somebody that I will when I do have that need, I'm going to go back to that person because that's the person I want. I want on my team.

And

finally, you know, the thing that we all are looking for most and foremost is is for purpose and meaning. And and so if we remember, you know, those four points, the fact that, you know, listen for the detail for the refer to identify the real problem. Show up because showing up is is the most important thing you can do.

So

know when you're at your limits to bring in an expert and then remember what people are really caring about, what people are really looking for. If you do those four things, then you really are taking the lessons of rabbinical and and spiritual education and you're bringing them into your leadership. And so those are the ways that I try to bring my rabbinical education into the leadership of the International Law Section.

I love your

answer. You left me without words because, I mean, everybody probably writing right now all these points.

I

mean, I mean, but, you know, there's one thing I should share right now.

I

never shared it, but I should share it with you.

Please.

That, you know, for me, a rabbi was a symbolic thing. I remember asking some bosses out in my career, asking them, don't be a boss, be a rabbi. And they're looking, what do you mean? And for me, a rabbi was always I always remember a story. Maybe you correct me if I'm wrong, that

that

was the person who wants the student to be bigger than a rabbi. A successful rabbi is everybody wants the student to be even better than them. While you see a lot of bosses want you to shrink you to feel great and they don't want you to grow. And I think that's symbolic way of thinking, not religious, but symbolic way. A lot of people don't understand rabbi is not just religious function. The way of thinking is almost opposite than the leadership, opposite from the bosses or dictator or controlling. It's exactly all the thing you shared. It's a totally different way of leadership that some people talk about servant leadership. I think it's much more than that.

And I thank you for that, for opening our eyes for that.

It's like I want to teach the audience a Yiddish word. Those who know me already probably have already heard me use this word, but it's called nachas.

I

mean, you can it's probably true in Hebrew as well. But the point is, is that,

you

know, there's something that we that every parent gets nachas when, you know, I spell it N-A-C-H-A-S. That's how I'm spelling it, so nachas. Every parent gets nachas when they see their children playing together nicely.

But

the truth is, is that that kind of feeling, if you open yourself up to it, is not just a feeling that a parent can get about the children. But it's a feeling that children can get about their parents, about siblings, can get about one another. And any person who cares about somebody else can feel about somebody else. And so as a result, if you can develop the sense that you will get nachas, that feeling of pride and joy from seeing the people who work for you that you are leading do well and ideally even do better than you and build on what you've built. That that is the greatest feeling. And you will become a great leader because that's what parents parents feel that feeling. Right.

Parents are great leaders. often because they feel that feeling of nachas. They feel that sense of pride and joy in the accomplishments of their children. And so the more that we can develop that sense of feeling that pride and joy, just as you highlighted, to be that rabbi as a leader, you know, you'll be much and much more successful.

Great,

David. And those who speak other languages, he spoke the word in Yiddish. And Hebrew is nachas, and it's not nachas, which is Arabic, which is absolutely not connected to nachas.

Okay.

And David, by the way,

there

are beautiful cheerleaders here in the comments.

We

have Linda who says that ABA International Law Section is the best. All are welcome. No need to be an attorney licensed in

the

U.S. or even be an attorney. So join us. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Thank you, Linda. Thank

you very much. And then we have also a team from Boston who says that the ILS community really helped me get through COVID too. Yeah.

Exactly

what you mentioned. So that's exactly the caring. But we have a question for you, if you allow me to push it right now for Mandelina.

Please.

Mandelina asks, how do you balance your legal profession, your religious vocation without undermining the importance of either?

That's a wonderful question, Mandelina. And I think fundamentally the first thing is that you need to have the sense of moral balance that you want in your life. And, you know, whether it's in the practice of law or doing the work in the Bar Association, I know what I'm trying to achieve. I know what I'm what

I'm

hoping to accomplish, and I have the same guardrails in all of those in all of those settings. A second element of it, I think, is recognizing how they feed one another, that recognizing that the work that I do in the Bar Association is, you know, makes me a better person. You know, we're going to talk a little bit about about about about it, I hope, by the end of this about sort of what I'm hoping to achieve. I hope you'll ask me about what I'm hoping to achieve. And so, you know, and so I'll touch a little bit on it right now in connection with this, is that when when the ideal is when the

who

you are as a person and who you as a spiritual person is what is what you're working on in your professional life, you know. And so here in connection with the Bar Association, the fabulously things that the Bar Association does in terms of helping others in terms of developing policy for to make the world a better place, a world a safer place to respond to terrible actions like what's going on in Ukraine. You know, to be there for other people. All of those things are what the Bar Association is about. And therefore, you know, enabling me to do more work in the Bar Association does help and makes me a more spiritual person.

And so, you know, I wish I had thought more about that earlier in my life. But, you know, the the bottom line is, is that don't miss the opportunity to think about that. And and

and,

you know, you should make sure that you're

you

know, if it isn't accomplishing what it is that you want, if your work isn't accomplishing the things that you want in your personal life, then be be flexible enough to to make a change. Don't feel like you're locked in because none of us are really locked in. Thank God. You know, in in in the society where we are, we have the opportunity to make choices. And that's a true blessing that that I hope all of the people on the on this program who are watching have.

Thank

you very much, David.

I

hope Mandelina answered your question, but we're going to come back to it in a second. And again, those who are joining us, we're still live. So keep with staying with us. I'm here with Rabbi David Schwartz, speaking on lessons and leadership and unique perspective. And again, thank you. Thank you very much for all of you for joining us and your busy time schedule. If you're interested in learning more about David and his work, of course, you can connect with him on LinkedIn. And I will ask those who are not members of ABI LS, maybe it's a good opportunity to ask you to go check it out. Join the event. Join the community. Imagine meeting amazing new people. What's

wrong

can go with it? So check

it out again.

And if you want to make sure you never miss one of our weekly switch on interview series, follow me on LinkedIn or go to the switch up website. You can sign up, get our business development strategies and tips, and you'll be added to our email list where you get regular reminder about fantastic guests like David today. So let's continue with our insightful topic, David. And from your humble experience, or maybe from my humble experience first, from mentoring and training a lot of lawyers worldwide, I notice really many of them often do not have

specific

goals to achieve and measure the getting advanced in their career or in the practice. And I'm curious about your plans. You talked about it before. You talked about what your wife advised you. So my question is, what do you hope to achieve

during

your year as a chair of the ABA International Law Section chair?

Well,

I'm excited to share this. And that is, you know,

the

Bar Association more than I think almost any other organization. Well, the truth is, is that any organization that you want to be a part of should be in something that brings joy to your life. That's that's that's really what the key is. And, you know, should provide that source of purpose and meaning that we're all looking for. And one of the great things about the ABA International Law Section

is

that we have lots of different ways that that can happen within the section. The first and foremost is just being a part of the association

will

allow you to be connected to the great things that are being done by others in the Bar Association. Things like, you know, we adopted a policy that the ABA approved

this

past February that has already been implemented to some degree by the UN in in trying to identify the harms that have been perpetrated in Ukraine. And so that they can be measured and and appropriate steps can be taken to hold Russia accountable. Those are you know, it's a good feeling to be connected to somebody who's doing things that are actually trying to make a difference in this world.

But

we can do more than just enable you to be connected to somebody who's doing a good thing. We can enable you to do the good thing. You can help others. You can, you know, make things better for the world, whether that's developing policy for the section or or teaching others or mentoring others. You know, it's mentioned mentoring before. We have a fabulous new fabulous new mentoring project that if you join, if you're a more seasoned lawyer, you can join the seasoned lawyer committee. If you're more less experienced lawyer, you can join our young lawyer committee and and and get matched up so that you have the opportunity to work with somebody that will mentor you and care about you and

feel

that sense of not us when you are successful. And so, you know, you definitely you can to join, by the way, you know, just go to American bar dot org and you'll see if you're not already a member, you can click join. And if you are a member, join the international law section. You know, the the other great thing about one of the great things about the international law section. And I think one of the comments earlier that you shared highlighted is that we're a very flat organization. And what I mean by that is if you raise your hand, you're going to get called on and you're going to get asked to do something.

And that's a great feeling and will immediately enable you to put something on your resume to feel good about yourself as a as as somebody who's contributing. You know, you can do anything that you want within the international law section just by raising your hand. It's really quite remarkable, you know,

over

and over again. The chair of the international law section is somebody who just raised their hand, you know, 15 to 20 years ago. You know, I got involved in the international law section while planning the two thousand and two spring meeting of the of the of the conference. My mentor, Mike Bywitz got me involved, who I really appreciate everything that he he's done. And I followed his footsteps because, you know, you know, a few years later, he became chair of the section. And now here it is 20 years later and I'm chair of the section. And so, you know, it really is if you raise your hand, you can do anything within the section.

And

then recognizing that when you raise your hand and you help others, you know, you know what, as as the switch has highlighted. Right. You don't just help others. You actually help yourself because,

you

know, you learn the skill organizational skills, how to speak better, because in both of those cases, how to lead better, how to lead committees better.

Everything

that you do when you do it more, you get better at it. It's just like, you know, building muscle. Right. If you if you exercise more, you'll get stronger and you'll be able to do more and build build the stronger muscles. And so, you know, that's another aspect. So whether it's the again joy of connecting of being part of something larger than yourself, the joy of helping others and making the world a better place, the joy of learning. And improving yourself. And then finally, it's the ultimate joy, the joy that is touched on by, you know, your you know, your book about the switch, about

flipping

the switch so that it's not about you. It's about them. It's the joy of human connection. You know, the the group, you know, just as Tim highlighted the fact that, you know, the international law section helped him get through covid. It's true for many people, not necessarily at that level, but at the level, like I said, you know, I I was, you know, on some level ready to leave. But I couldn't say goodbye because the people that were there are people that I care about.

And if that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for a place where you'll feel good about the work that's being done generally, you'll feel good about having the opportunity to help others and do the work yourself and and make the world a better place. And you'll feel good about becoming a better lawyer, better organized, better able to speak in public and finally have connections with others. If that's what you're looking for. Well, the international law section is a great place. And that's that's my goal. It's already true. So I'm going to achieve my goal because I know that it's already true that the international law section is like that.

But to really achieve my goal, it'll be to have everybody who's part of the international law section not only say that to themselves and recognize it, but to tell others and to tell others in a way that builds and grows and constructs a community that so many people want to participate. So anyway, that those are my thoughts as to what I'm hoping to achieve. And I'm hoping that many people in the audience will feel the same way and join me in in enabling that to all come true.

Thank

you very much for your authenticity, David. I mean, love you listening. This was not a selfie. This was really truly from the heart of David, really common because he's the chair, because he's there for many years. Again, I recommend you go there. And by the way, do me a favor. If you go there and register, tell you heard David saying it and you can because David told you about all the things because you want to match what David has told you. And you see it's all the reality in front of you. You heard from other members as well in the chat. And I just see another comment here before I'm going to last remarks from Peter Pan, who wrote a long comment and

said,

I am most interested in lawyers with integrity and spiritual calling. It makes celebration so much meaningful and satisfying. Thumbs up to David and Itzik for spreading this leadership program, US politics, anything but.

Peter,

thank you for this. And thanks,

Mandela,

for sharing with us the link for the IBA International Law section LinkedIn page.

So

last word for you, David, and I know positive psychology founder, I don't know if you know, Martin Zedigman, will urge us to focus on building positive emotion, character strength and establishing a sense of meaning in life. I think you just talked about as a self leaders, we can determine how we approach and respond to the situation. Also in our industries, these leaders often focus on management, productivity, performance and engagement. But if the pursuit of joy that David shared with us was also part of the focus

as

a leader of others, we can make

a

difference. The fruit in all ways we encourage, build relationship based on mutual respect

and

trust. All things David shared with us, support meaningful contribution and boost energy and attitude. Cultivating joy for yourself

will

inspire others to do the same. Joy is our essential nature, as you know, who we are in our best state of being.

So

cultivate and nurture joy and ask yourself if there is a joy

in

your leadership, as exactly as David shared with us today. And as you learned on this powerful session, all the beautiful things. I hope you wrote things down to yourself, but you're very welcome to watch the replay and all the golden nugget and diamond David shared with us. But this summer is a great session.

Let

me share a quote that identify or definitely could inspire many of you. A quote by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who said, whatever you choose to do, leave tracks. That means don't do it just for yourself. You will want to leave the world a little bit better for you having lived.

And

I think that's exactly where the motto of David. Thank you, everybody. Thank all of you to being here. It's time for you to take action, to implement everything you learn. Or at least what David said at

the

beginning, one thing you learned from David today. Just go put it in practice and see the beautiful thing you get in your life. We've been here with David Schwartz. He is a top legal expert and a rabbi and a current chair of the ABA International Law Section. And for now,

I

want to thank you, David. It's been fantastic having you here. And thanks for

for

all the time and efforts and preparing and really sharing from the bottom of your heart your story and who you are.

It's been totally an honor and look forward to the next time that we have a chance to to talk and talk about how, you know, slight changes can make every meeting even a little better.

Awesome. And David, I want to thank each one of you for joining us. Thank you for your time. Again, remember, next episode is next Tuesday, 6 p.m. Central European Time, 12 p.m. Eastern Time, 9 a.m.

Pacific

Time. But now

it's

your time to switch on and learn how to insert more joy in your leadership style. Thank you, David. Thank you, everybody. Thanks.

Be well,

everybody.